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    • CommentRowNumber1.
    • CommentAuthorDavid_Corfield
    • CommentTimeFeb 17th 2025

    A prominent choice when illustrating the notion of double category is that of ing\mathbb{R}ing, the double category of rings, ring morphisms, bimodules and bimodule morphisms. I wonder if there’s any connection to the fact that the tangent category to the category of (not necessarily commutative) rings at RR is the category of RR-bimodules.

    It’s as though the tangent category has picked up on paths in the infinitesimal neighborhoods of the points. You could imagine the double category as expanding the tangent category to paths beyond the infinitesimal. Anything to this thought?

    It would be something like using the two directions of a double category to deal with the nonlinear and linear aspects. Of course we have the interesting phenomenon of the tangent to Grpd\infty-Grpd still being a topos. Might this profit though from ’expanding’ the linear dimension?

    I wonder if there’s something misleading in that when the nonlinear objects are commutative, one doesn’t speak of bimodules. So the tangent category to CRingCRing is just ModMod. But could one think of this as morally, T R(Ring)=RRBiModT_R(Ring) = R-R-BiMod.

    What would be the opening up of the linear dimension in the case of parameterized spectra? Something like X×Y opSpec X \times Y^{op} \to Spec? Maybe there’s something misleading with Y opYY^{op} \cong Y.

    Hmm, just had a sense that I should take a look at Entanglement of Sections.

    • CommentRowNumber2.
    • CommentAuthorDavid_Corfield
    • CommentTimeFeb 17th 2025

    I knew something felt familiar. Here’s a discussion from ages ago about why we tend not to bother to say ’birepresentation’ when it comes to groups, because a GHG-H-birepresentation is a G×HG \times H-representation.

    • CommentRowNumber3.
    • CommentAuthorDavid_Corfield
    • CommentTimeFeb 17th 2025

    Ah, this from external tensor product seems relevant:

    Under suitable conditions on compact generation of Mod()Mod(-) then one may deduce that Mod(X 1×X 2)Mod(X_1 \times X_2) is generated under external product from Mod(X 1)Mod(X_1) and Mod(X 2)Mod(X_2),

    • CommentRowNumber4.
    • CommentAuthorUrs
    • CommentTimeFeb 17th 2025
    • (edited Feb 17th 2025)

    Just to highlight, as you note, that those bimodules appearing as Beck modules (here) have the same ring acting on both sides (in the commutative case these actions can and do coincide), while the bimodules in that double category may generally have different rings acting on either side.

    Another issue to beware for your question is that the tangent/Beck module construction does not know about the composition of bimodules (as far as I am aware), whereas this is, of course, a key part of the double category structure.

    • CommentRowNumber5.
    • CommentAuthorUrs
    • CommentTimeFeb 17th 2025

    On the “birepresentations”: Strictly speaking, (G,H)(G,H)-birepresentations are G×H opG \times H^{op}-representations, for H opH^{op} the “opposite group”,

    just as (A,B)(A,B)-bimodules are AB opA \otimes B^{op}-modules.

    So the real point here is that groups HH are always canonically isomorphic to their opposite groups (via the inversion map) and that the analogue of this statement fails for rings. That’s why why one speaks of bimodules but not so much about “birepresentations”.

    • CommentRowNumber6.
    • CommentAuthorDavid_Corfield
    • CommentTimeFeb 17th 2025

    Thanks.

    Another issue to beware for your question is that the tangent/Beck module construction does not know about the composition of bimodules (as far as I am aware), whereas this is, of course, a key part of the double category structure.

    Wouldn’t this be a good thing to have, though? So the tangent construction is picking up say a parameterized spectrum at an \infty-groupoid XX, and while we may composed two of these with the external tensor product to a spectrum parameterized over X×XX \times X, were to see one of these parameterized spectra as some kind of XX-X opX^{op}-bimodule, then two of them should compose to give just another XX-parameterized spectrum. Is that the issue?

    • CommentRowNumber7.
    • CommentAuthorDavid_Corfield
    • CommentTimeFeb 17th 2025

    But there is a parameterized smash product, so no.

    • CommentRowNumber8.
    • CommentAuthorUrs
    • CommentTimeFeb 17th 2025

    Incidentally, a parameterized spectrum on a connected space XX is an \infty-representation of the loop \infty-group ΩX\Omega X (because XBΩXX \simeq B \Omega X), and the above comments about bi-representations apply here, too, in homotopified form.

    In this context, we are looking at GG-representations as linear fibrations over BGB G. Given two such, you want to tensor them to a fibration over the point. This will be given by a homotopy coend formula, as usual for tensor products.

    • CommentRowNumber9.
    • CommentAuthorDavid_Corfield
    • CommentTimeFeb 17th 2025

    Presumably there is then the usual coend calculus to compose parameterization by X×Y opX \times Y^{op} with that by Y×Z opY \times Z^{op}.

    By the way, the original motivation for all this was a thought that bunched logic might be better served double category-theoretically. Syntactical complexity is often found to be a sign that one is trying to do two things that should be separate in the same system. They’re devising relevant type theories now, such as here.

    • CommentRowNumber10.
    • CommentAuthorUrs
    • CommentTimeFeb 17th 2025

    One day somebody will pick up that bunched homotopy type theory again. Fingers crossed.

    Meanwhile, I console myself by knowing it’s the type-theoretic analog of EPR phenomena (Monadology, p. 18) and as such deservedly hard to grasp.

    • CommentRowNumber11.
    • CommentAuthorDavid_Corfield
    • CommentTimeFeb 17th 2025

    Well, I’m speaking to Oxford computer scientists about such matters on Friday.

    Odd though. The departmental closure sees me move to this current AI project. I start working on graded monads, cost analysis and amortization, and before I know it we’ve got copresheaves over an ordered monoid, and it’s how do we deal with the linear/nonlinear issue. And then people are telling us to look at bunched logic. No escape!

    Maybe it’s not so surprising. The amortization idea, which is to level out payments of whatever – time/space/money/memory/computing resource – over the life of the run of a program, often talk about the Physicist’s method, which is to keep track of a ’potential’, so that you’re stacking up credit in the cheaper times for when the big cost comes.

    • CommentRowNumber12.
    • CommentAuthorDavid_Corfield
    • CommentTimeFeb 17th 2025

    By the way, it feels like we need yet another dimension. Not only relating spectra over parameter spaces via bimods, but relating different versions of linearity, -rings. Is there ever a need to pass between RR-linear and SS-linear tangent \infty-toposes?

    A triple category of spaces and maps, bimodules of parameterized RR-modules, and RSR-S-bimodules.

    • CommentRowNumber13.
    • CommentAuthorDavid_Corfield
    • CommentTimeFeb 17th 2025

    That’s interesting. In Mike Shulman’s Framed bicategories and monoidal fibrations, he writes

    There is a double category of parametrized spectra called Ex, whose construction is essentially contained in [MS06]… In [MS06] this structure is described only as a bicategory with ‘base change operations’, but it is pointed out there that existing categorical structures do not suffice to describe it. We will see in §14 how this sort of structure gives rise, quite generally, not only to a double category, but to a framed bicategory, which supplies the missing categorical structure.

    And

    The theory of framed bicategories was largely motivated by the desire to find a good categorical structure for the theory of parametrized spectra in [MS06]. The reader familiar with [MS06] should find the idea of a framed bicategory natural; it was realized clearly in [MS06] that existing categorical structures were inadequate to describe the combination of a bicategory with base change operations which arose naturally in that context.

    [MS06] is

    • CommentRowNumber14.
    • CommentAuthorUrs
    • CommentTimeFeb 18th 2025

    It sounds a bit like “double category” is the answer you want, and now you are looking for the question. ;-)

    Just to note that in the situation of RR-linear fibrations over BGB G, base change corresponds to forming induced/restricted/co-induced reps (as recorded in our homotopy type representation theory – table).

    • CommentRowNumber15.
    • CommentAuthorDavid_Corfield
    • CommentTimeFeb 18th 2025

    So re #8, isn’t the situation a little like:

    The double category of sets, functions and relations is all well and good, but we can always reconstruct everything from self-relations on sets (a relation between AA and BB is a self-relation on ABA \coprod B). And then even further it’s all just about properties, a relation between AA and BB is just a property of A×BA \times B. So really all we need are sets, functions and properties/subsets.

    But advantages are gained by working with double categories.

    • CommentRowNumber16.
    • CommentAuthorUrs
    • CommentTimeFeb 18th 2025

    advantages are gained by working with double categories.

    A major one being that one can write more articles on formalism. ;-)

    Seriously, you may first want to have a clearer picture of what you are trying to prove or to model, and when that picture is clear it’s time to look for tools.

    • CommentRowNumber17.
    • CommentAuthorDavid_Corfield
    • CommentTimeFeb 18th 2025
    • (edited Feb 18th 2025)

    Our comment crossed by the way. #15 wasn’t responding to #14.

    Maybe I’m looking to force things a little. But sometimes that’s not such a bad thing. Anyway, double categories are very much in where I’m working now.

    Edit: must remember to refresh. This wasn’t a response to your last one.

    • CommentRowNumber18.
    • CommentAuthorDavid_Corfield
    • CommentTimeFeb 19th 2025

    you may first want to have a clearer picture of what you are trying to prove or to model

    Does LHoTT/QS deal with situations where the choice of worlds (choice of measurement basis) is not predetermined? I take it there’s no reason it shouldn’t represent the experimental protocol for Aspect-like experiments, where some indeterminacy decides which measurements to take on part of an entangled system.

    Can the Heisenberg uncertainty principle be represented?

    • CommentRowNumber19.
    • CommentAuthorUrs
    • CommentTimeFeb 19th 2025

    On the first question:

    A key aspect of the setup is that it retains full classical programming logic, so that all operations can be subjected to case distinctions like “if measurement gives such-and-such then next measure this, else measure that”. This just corresponds to handling indexed sets of possible worlds and then picking an index value.

    This possibility of classical control over quantum operations is what the diagram on p. 4 means to highlight.

    On a side note, it may be, say, entertaining to realize the sheer scale of this classical intervention into quantum computation that the currently dominant idea of future “quantum error correction” of noisy qbits (NISQ+QEC) is envisioning: The left column of p. 5 in Waintal 2024 “The Quantum House of Cards” (arXiv:2312.17570) gives some impression. This is why the NISQ+QEC program has been likened to the search for perpetual motion of previous centuries (by Kalai 2012). But I am seriously digressing now…

    \,

    On the second question:

    The phenomenon of Heisenberg uncertainty directly reflects the non-commutativity of observables in quantum probability. That non-commutativity is reflected in the language: Ex. 2.44 (p. 87). Note though that this is not to do with dependent types. For instance the ZX-calculus gets its name from a pair of non-commuting observables: ZZ and XX, and draws its interest from the useful consequences of their Heisenberg uncertainty, if you wish.

    • CommentRowNumber20.
    • CommentAuthorDavid_Corfield
    • CommentTimeFeb 19th 2025

    A sobering article by Waintal! Topological protection to the rescue.

    Re my questions, thanks! Right, so I was fishing for some need to have some structure in the parameterization, so that there might be some genuine XYX-Y-bimodule behaviour. But maybe the way to think is that whatever the situation, whenever there’s a measurement, it takes place in the context of one set of outcomes. A change of basis is just that. Product of parameter sets is possible, but there won’t be any WWW-W' and WWW'-W'', therefore WWW-W''.

    Just to mention, since I guess the coloured palette approach to bunched types isn’t written in stone as the only way to do linear HoTT, but there are other attempts to derive a substructural dependent type theory, such as

    • CommentRowNumber21.
    • CommentAuthorUrs
    • CommentTimeFeb 19th 2025
    • (edited Feb 19th 2025)

    Thanks for the pointer, have now listed that reference also at dependent linear types.

    But does it handle doubly closed monoidal structure? After a first scan through the article it seems not to do so, but maybe I missed it.

    • CommentRowNumber22.
    • CommentAuthorDavid_Corfield
    • CommentTimeFeb 19th 2025
    • (edited Feb 19th 2025)

    I never find it easy to extract what type theorists are up to. By the time we get to the end (4.1 Toward the type theory of monoidal topoi) there’s talk of how to relate the two monoidal structures on a monoidal topos and the need for two left-fibrant structures on the same double category. And then some speculation that there should be a connection to Mitchell’s work.

    • CommentRowNumber23.
    • CommentAuthorDavid_Corfield
    • CommentTimeFeb 20th 2025
    • (edited Feb 20th 2025)

    For what it’s worth, I see that Peter May in these slides turns to bicategories and bimodules precisely at the moment he treats Costenoble-Waner duality:

    the notion of Costenoble–Waner duality, the parametrised (as opposed to fibrewise) version of Spanier-Whitehead duality, (here)