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nLab > nLab Technical Matters: right-justify?

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    • CommentRowNumber1.
    • CommentAuthorTodd_Trimble
    • CommentTimeMay 22nd 2014

    Can anyone tell me how to right-justify text on display? Say for example one wanted to display a subtraction of two numbers with different decimal lengths, how would one do that? (If there’s a handy page where this is done, that would be great.)

    • CommentRowNumber2.
    • CommentAuthorTobyBartels
    • CommentTimeMay 22nd 2014

    I don't know about Instiki, but you can do with HTML tables, which Instiki will pass through. I put an example in the Sandbox. However, I can't make the borders go away.

    • CommentRowNumber3.
    • CommentAuthorTodd_Trimble
    • CommentTimeMay 22nd 2014

    Terrific; thank you Toby!

    • CommentRowNumber4.
    • CommentAuthorAndrew Stacey
    • CommentTimeMay 22nd 2014

    How about:

    225 − 7 218 \begin{aligned} &&225 \\ &-&7 \\ &&218 \end{aligned}

    (Not sure how to do the underlining for the equals, though.)

    • CommentRowNumber5.
    • CommentAuthorTodd_Trimble
    • CommentTimeMay 22nd 2014

    Thanks, Andrew; I’ll also keep that solution in mind.

    • CommentRowNumber6.
    • CommentAuthorUrs
    • CommentTimeMay 22nd 2014
    • (edited May 22nd 2014)
    225 − 7 = 218¯ \begin{aligned} &&225 \\ &-&7 \\ &=& \overline{218} \end{aligned}
    • CommentRowNumber7.
    • CommentAuthorTodd_Trimble
    • CommentTimeMay 22nd 2014

    Thanks, Urs; if there were a way of getting that line closer to halfway between the answer and the subtrahend, that would be perfect.

    • CommentRowNumber8.
    • CommentAuthorUrs
    • CommentTimeMay 22nd 2014

    Dunno. But if you are ambitious, I suppose our built-in SVG editor is meant to be used for such needs. I’d be interested in seeing anyone use it. (It used not to work on my computer, but I haven’t tried in a while.)

    • CommentRowNumber9.
    • CommentAuthorTobyBartels
    • CommentTimeMay 23rd 2014
    • (edited May 23rd 2014)

    I don't know about halfway, but here it is closer to the subtrahend instead, which personally I prefer:

    225 − 007̲ = 218 \begin{aligned} &&225 \\ &-&\underline{\phantom{00}7} \\ &=& 218 \end{aligned}

    Also, here's a version with the minus sign more between the minuend and the subtrahend:

    225 − 007̲ = 218 \begin{aligned} &&225 \\ &{}^{\displaystyle-}&\underline{\phantom{00}7} \\ &=& 218 \end{aligned}

    (This also renders the minus sign smaller, but it shouldn't; that seems to be a bug in iTeX or something. If \displaystyle is supported, then it should do something! ETA: The MathML has a displaystyle command there, so the bug seems to be in my browser's rendering.)

    • CommentRowNumber10.
    • CommentAuthorTodd_Trimble
    • CommentTimeMay 23rd 2014

    The first option with the phantom 00’s is pretty clever, Toby. That might be about as good as one could hope for using Instiki.

    • CommentRowNumber11.
    • CommentAuthorZhen Lin
    • CommentTimeMay 23rd 2014
    • (edited May 23rd 2014)

    Actually, you could use array:

    255 − 7 = 218\begin{array}{cr} & 255 \\ - & 7 \\ = & 218 \end{array}

    But that does not solve the problem of putting in a horizontal line.

    • CommentRowNumber12.
    • CommentAuthorRodMcGuire
    • CommentTimeMay 23rd 2014
    • (edited May 23rd 2014)

    It is kind of funny that MathML which can handle fairly complex math is not very suited for the type of displays that appear in elementary school math education.

    The new proposed MathML3 is extended to generate things like

    long multiplication

    Of course it may be a while before this standard appears in say FireFox and LaTex →\to MathML translators are updated to use target this representation, and things like MathJax know about it.

    EDIT: I try below to directly inline the MathML for the above example - nForum accepts it but displays nothing. How can MathML be displayed here?

    EDIT: The above MathML just generates an empty “math” element. Here is the MathML for the quadratic formula which generates a properly inhabited “math” element but doesn’t display correctly:

    x = − b ± b 2 − 4 a c 2 a

    EDIT: try adding an “xmlns” to the “math” (which is not needed in HTML5)

    x = − b ± b 2 − 4 a c 2 a
    • CommentRowNumber13.
    • CommentAuthorAndrew Stacey
    • CommentTimeMay 23rd 2014

    The empty MathML element is most likely due to the XHTML sanitiser not knowing about the newer MathML elements (I don’t recall seeing mstack before so it’s quite possible that it filters that, and all its content, out).

    As for the quadratic formula …

    x = − b ± b 2 − 4 a c 2 a

    … it works for me in preview, let’s see what happens when I post it.

    • CommentRowNumber14.
    • CommentAuthorAndrew Stacey
    • CommentTimeMay 23rd 2014

    Yup, looks fine to me.

    • CommentRowNumber15.
    • CommentAuthorTodd_Trimble
    • CommentTimeMay 23rd 2014

    Guys, all this information and advice is very useful indeed, and thanks so much for responding and helping.

    Rod: yes, indeed it is a little strange. It’s nice to know that you seem to have some inside knowledge here. I guess I’ll come out and say that I’m asking because I’m trying to help my sister-in-law develop some online courses at a pre-algebra and “Algebra I” level for home-schooling families, and it would be useful to use my private web for hashing some things out.

    • CommentRowNumber16.
    • CommentAuthorRodMcGuire
    • CommentTimeMay 23rd 2014

    Andrew - I fixed my quadradic example above by adding an “xmlns” which is not needed in HTML5. I didn’t check that the nForum is still

    <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.1 plus MathML 2.0 plus SVG 1.1//EN" "http://www.w3.org/2002/04/xhtml-math-svg/xhtml-math-svg.dtd" >

    Are there any plans to update nForum and nLab to HTML5?

    I included the MathML3 example to see if it magically worked or if it caused things to blow up. This MathML3 test page indicates that my current FireFox 29.0.1 doesn’t handle any of the examples.

    Todd - sorry but I am not an inside insider on MathML. Sadly there is very little work being done directly on it and only FireFox now directly supports it - most effort is being directed on the MathJax kludge/polyfill. I don’t know what the gameplan for pushing MathML3 out is.

    Also see this nForum thread nForum - Project to increase MathML support.

    • CommentRowNumber17.
    • CommentAuthorAndrew Stacey
    • CommentTimeMay 23rd 2014

    Are there any plans to update nForum and nLab to HTML5?

    Not that I know of unless you’re volunteering. I wasn’t aware that sticking with XHTML1.1 was causing a problem.

    This MathML3 test page indicates that my current FireFox 29.0.1 doesn’t handle any of the examples.

    Odd, they look fine in my current FF29.0.1.

    Sadly there is very little work being done directly on it

    Given the niche market, I’d say that this is a bit disingenuous.

    only FireFox now directly supports it

    and that’s just flat wrong. WebKit’s MathML support is increasing and so MathML is reasonable in Safari. This is a big advance because that also means that it is possible in iBooks which increases the possibility of decent mathematical eBooks. In fact, I’d say that ePub3 is likely to prove the game changer as far as MathML is concerned. ebook publishers don’t want to ship massive javascript libraries with every book so there’ll be a push to include more MathML in ebook readers.

    • CommentRowNumber18.
    • CommentAuthorRodMcGuire
    • CommentTimeMay 23rd 2014

    Odd, they look fine in my current FF29.0.1.

    Really? in my 29.0.1 the first example on the test page renders as

    496 + 28

    instead of

    long addition

    • CommentRowNumber19.
    • CommentAuthorAndrew Stacey
    • CommentTimeMay 23rd 2014

    Like I say, it looks right on my browser which is FF29.0.1.

    • CommentRowNumber20.
    • CommentAuthorRodMcGuire
    • CommentTimeMay 23rd 2014
    • (edited May 24th 2014)

    Like I say, it looks right on my browser which is FF29.0.1.

    Without extensions?

    The Mozilla MathML Status Page says that the “Elementary Math” group (mstack, mlongdiv, msgroup, msrow, mscarries, mscarry, msline) are Not Implemented.

    However there is the FF extension MathML-mml3ff which will “Add support for MathML 3 features not implemented in Gecko.”

    Could you also be running that? I just installed and it does make the example page work.

    Anyway, with that, Todd could write his stuff directly in MathML, provided the “XHTML sanitiser” is told about mstack etc.

    • CommentRowNumber21.
    • CommentAuthorTobyBartels
    • CommentTimeMay 25th 2014

    I'm running Firefox 29.0 (on Ubuntu 12.04), and I got the same results as Rod: first, no formatting, then with MathML-mml3ff it works. (Although I'm not pleased with the look.)

    • CommentRowNumber22.
    • CommentAuthorTobyBartels
    • CommentTimeMay 25th 2014

    Given the niche market, I’d say that this is a bit disingenuous.

    Please don't impugn Rod's honesty. (Unless you really think that he's trying to deceive us, in which case just stating this is not an effective warning.) This isn't a Usenet debate.

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