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    • CommentRowNumber101.
    • CommentAuthorAndrew Stacey
    • CommentTimeOct 1st 2009

    Okey-dokey, it was just a thought.

    I'm done messing around with the category view for latest changes. It displays the first comment (i.e. the one that it was all about) if there are any unread comments. So you get an overview of what the discussion is about and thus whether or not it's worth going deeper. Also, the Instructions post is not visible from the main page (since otherwise it would always be the first post there and would look like the instructions for the whole forum). I've also installed the 'mark all as read' plugin. I haven't experimented with this too much, but I think that it marks everything as read in the forum, so use At Your Own Risk!

    • CommentRowNumber102.
    • CommentAuthorzskoda
    • CommentTimeOct 5th 2009
    I have been working a bit last night on nlab. I click on latest changes, get a link to forum, log in, respond to Urs's entry which concerns the item I added on, click back, get just the entry related to that entry, not the list of all recent udpates like in latest changes before. Before it was all in one, now it is many pages. I will not tire myself up at all with this, I was up to yesterday ready to move but I won't. I will not log my changes into new complicated system, it is messing me up and I do not want to study a complicated system whose purpose I do not understand at all.
    • CommentRowNumber103.
    • CommentAuthorJonAwbrey
    • CommentTimeOct 5th 2009
    • (edited Oct 5th 2009)

    Yes, the forum-based system of logging latest changes is turning into a regular blog-bog where you can't be sure whether you've seen what you need to see — like just yesterday in the cafe someone said something was "very clever" and I wasted a ½ hour cycling around between the find-on-page and chronological and thread views trying to figure out what it was that was "very clever" and I never did find it — and this will only get multiplicatively worse as the number of headings hydrafy.

    I think a better thing to think about is whether we can get section-local editing on the wiki — this would reduce the chances of lockouts and edit conflix globally, not just on the latest changes page.

    • CommentRowNumber104.
    • CommentAuthorMike Shulman
    • CommentTimeOct 5th 2009

    Actually, I don't know whether I would like the current setup if I weren't using a feed-reader. For purposes of replies, I think it would be better to have a threaded view of everything that's been written, rather than just a view of the first post in each discussion. What do others think?

    Jon, presumably you're referring to this post which was a reply to this one. I don't usually have any trouble finding the replied-to post on the cafe, but on the rare occasions when it is a problem, what I do is switch to thread view and scroll up until the vertical line immediately to the left of the reply first disappears. Possibly what the cafe could really use is a collapsible thread-view.

    • CommentRowNumber105.
    • CommentAuthorJonAwbrey
    • CommentTimeOct 5th 2009
    • (edited Oct 5th 2009)

    Thanks, Ariadne, that was just the clue! — but I have to say it was a mite further back than I normally pull.


    • CommentRowNumber106.
    • CommentAuthorUrs
    • CommentTimeOct 5th 2009

    Well, this is just a test run to see how we like it. We can still switch back.

    But I don't at the moment see why you find it harder to follow recent changes here. I find it easier, even without RSS. All the new links are at the top, easily visible. no?

    • CommentRowNumber107.
    • CommentAuthorTobyBartels
    • CommentTimeOct 5th 2009

    I find the new system a little easier, I think, because I can view the various updates more independently.

    This would not work if I didn't have an account. But since I do, and since I accept the cookie to stay logged in (until it disappears after a month or something and I need to log in again), the main page tells me where new posts are, and clicking on ‘New’ takes me right where I want to be.

    • CommentRowNumber108.
    • CommentAuthorAndrew Stacey
    • CommentTimeOct 6th 2009

    Zoran, I'm sorry that you feel that way. I understand that you don't like changing a system that you've gotten used to. I do feel that you make life a little complicated for yourself:

    I click on latest changes, get a link to forum, log in, respond to Urs's entry which concerns the item I added on, click back, get just the entry related to that entry, not the list of all recent udpates like in latest changes before.

    Why not have a tab open at the forum and keep yourself logged in, then it's no more clicks than the old system. And to get the full list, simply click on the words 'latest changes' wherever they appear (apart from the title of this discussion, of course), that takes you to the category view where you get a summary of all that's going on.

    Indeed, I'm sure that some smart cookie who knows a little about javascript could write a "smart bookmarklet" that took the title of the page that is being edited and started a new discussion here on that subject all with one click.

    However, I realise that your situation is somewhat unique so I don't want to make you feel hassled about this.

    Mike, things like that can be tweaked. This forum has themes and stylesheets that can be set up to give almost any presentation that is desired. However, I don't regard this system as The System. A much better one would be a forum-like set-up integrated into Instiki. However, I think that this is a necessary step on the way to that as it gives us a chance to see what we would like from such an integrated system.

    Jon, that applies to your comment as well (though I don't understand your comment about not knowing if you've seen what you needed to see, the inference is that that was better in the old system). It's all very well pipedreaming, but some things are easy to implement and others are hard. And it's a long road between saying "wouldn't it be great to have section-local editing" to an actual implementation - just look over the threads about redirects to see the sort of things that can go on. For example, you can have "section-local editing" right now: simply make a master page with lots of includes of sub-pages. But that wouldn't work for latest changes because everyone would have to keep editing the master page to add their new link to the subpage that they'd just created to record their latest change. Plus there'd be much more to remember and many more steps to remember.

    We are trying this out for a month. There will be no major changes during that month. After that month, we can discuss what the consensus is.