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• CommentRowNumber101.
• CommentAuthorMike Shulman
• CommentTimeApr 5th 2019

My suggestions in #91 haven’t been implemented yet, have they? (I don’t mean to nag, I only ask because Jon seemed to indicate he was already seeing them, but I don’t.)

Changing the math to computer modern font would also be a big improvement! I would have suggested that too if I had known it was what was causing the math to look out of sync with the rest of the text.

I can go along with text justification I think, although I don’t really have strong feelings either way. Any other opinions?

• CommentRowNumber102.
• CommentAuthorMike Shulman
• CommentTimeApr 5th 2019

We’ve had more than one request to underline links, too. I think that would be

a { text-decoration: underline }

• CommentRowNumber103.
• CommentAuthorTodd_Trimble
• CommentTimeApr 6th 2019
• (edited Apr 6th 2019)

I was just rereading separable space, and in the end of the sentence with the name Pondiczery in it which ends with ’here’, I couldn’t see any indication that ’here’ links to another part of the nLab unless I hovered over it. The link goes to a specific result and that type of link used to be blue (and maybe underlined as well) without hovering over it, but from my computer at work (Chrome) I couldn’t see a thing.

Can we make that kind of link visible again, please, without having to hover over it?

• CommentRowNumber104.
• CommentAuthorMike Shulman
• CommentTimeApr 6th 2019

Todd, is that the same issue of “external links” that was raised already in #91, 97, 98? Links to a specific result (i.e. anchor) on another nLab page use the same syntax as external links, so have the same styling.

• CommentRowNumber105.
• CommentAuthorTodd_Trimble
• CommentTimeApr 6th 2019

Hi Mike,

Yes, I guess you’re right. Sorry for the repetition.

• CommentRowNumber106.
• CommentAuthorUrs
• CommentTimeApr 7th 2019

Just to say that Jake seems to have said that he has bowed out of doing further edits, which means that we will have to wait for Richard to implement the requested changes. Unless somebody else would lend a hand!

• CommentRowNumber107.
• CommentAuthorDavidRoberts
• CommentTimeApr 7th 2019

If someone will point out the files on GitHub, and the specific lines where the changes should be made, that will give interested parties something to aim at.

1. Sorry, been extremely busy the last few days, I will implement the changes suggested by Mike as soon as I get the chance (may not be today).

2. I have now made an attempt to implement all of the stylistic suggestions from #91 onwards, except that I have not changed the shade of green used for internal links, since David deliberately wished for this to be different from the old shade, and since it matches the logo I think.

Underlining of the links seems to be the change which helps the most with making the links clear.

Just let me know if further tweaks are needed (preferably with the actual concrete implementation details :-)).

• CommentRowNumber110.
• CommentAuthorDavidRoberts
• CommentTimeApr 12th 2019

Thanks, Richard!

3. There is some kind of bug causing certain things to be rendered in the same smaller font size as the context menu, I will fix that as soon as possible.

• CommentRowNumber112.
• CommentAuthorUrs
• CommentTimeApr 13th 2019
• (edited Apr 13th 2019)

Thanks, Richard.

I can’t help but think that the line spacing is clearly too small now. It looks now like all pages have a rendering problem with lines tending to crash into each other.

But if the majority of people regularly editing here really wish it to be that way, so be it.

• CommentRowNumber113.
• CommentAuthorDavidRoberts
• CommentTimeApr 13th 2019

I think it would be partly due to the change in font. The serif font looks denser than the sans fonts, though if there’s actual clashing, then something odd has happened.

• CommentRowNumber114.
• CommentAuthorUrs
• CommentTimeApr 13th 2019

When a “y” in one line sits over an “l” in the next, the distance between them is less than that between horizontally adjacent letters (here).

It’s not so important for me either way, we can just as well keep it this way if you all like, just registering that I don’t follow this.

• CommentRowNumber115.
• CommentAuthorDavidRoberts
• CommentTimeApr 13th 2019

I think it is not what people wanted. Ideally the nLab looks as professionally typeset as a published book or article, rather than some kind of page proofs (as it was before) or something too cramped to read comfortably (as it is now).

• CommentRowNumber116.
• CommentAuthorUrs
• CommentTimeApr 13th 2019

Okay, great. Thanks.

By the way, did you figure out which lines on which GitHub pages to edit for these matters? To lend Richard a hand?

• CommentRowNumber117.
• CommentAuthorDavidRoberts
• CommentTimeApr 13th 2019

No, I didn’t dig around. I was hoping someone who actually knows CSS and/or the nLab source would let the rest of us know.

• CommentRowNumber118.
• CommentAuthorUrs
• CommentTimeApr 13th 2019

Richard was being busy and didn’t see your request.

Richard, when you find a spare minute, could you let David know where to turn to for lending a hand with the formatting?! Thanks!

• CommentRowNumber119.
• CommentAuthorDavidRoberts
• CommentTimeApr 13th 2019

I was even thinking of the other people around here who knew enough CSS to bake their own stylesheets.

• CommentRowNumber120.
• CommentAuthorzskoda
• CommentTimeApr 13th 2019
• (edited Apr 13th 2019)

The external links now seem to be OK. However, the bulleted lists now have a new problem.

I am not sure if this was intended, but some bulleted points are now smaller than the rest of the text, while others are of the size of the regular text (I see no reason that any bulleted text be smaller than the regular text, on the contrary I find it less readable and less beautiful, unless in footnote-intended passages where the writer explicitly requires footnote style). An example with both regular and smaller bulleted lines in unpredictably differently rendered bulleted lists is smart contract (zoranskoda).

I agree with Urs that now the lines in regular size text tend to be a bit too closely vertically now.

• CommentRowNumber121.
• CommentAuthorDavidRoberts
• CommentTimeApr 13th 2019

This is the bug Richard mentioned in #111.

• CommentRowNumber122.
• CommentAuthorMike Shulman
• CommentTimeApr 13th 2019

Thanks Richard!

I think the problem mentioned in #114 occurs only in bulleted lists. At least, that’s the only place that I see it. But I don’t understand why it happens in some bulleted lists and not others (like the problem in #111).

4. Why should links have a different color from the rest of the text if they’re already underlined? Sorry if that has a trivial answer. (The text might look more calm if they were the same color.)

• CommentRowNumber124.
• CommentAuthorAlizter
• CommentTime7 days ago

@Michael_Bachtold nlab has always had coloured links. I find coloured links easier to see and read. We can also have different coloured links hinting to the individual partaking in clicking where they are going.

• CommentRowNumber125.
• CommentAuthorAlizter
• CommentTime7 days ago

I know this is standard in papers but can we have italics just slanted without the curly bits? Some pages, especially ones with lots of quotes like synthetic differential geometry are quite difficult to read when you have a block of curly text. Surely it must be possible to simply slant the text?

• CommentRowNumber126.
• CommentAuthorRichard Williamson
• CommentTime7 days ago
• (edited 7 days ago)

I have now fixed the bug mentioned in #111, and made line-height the same in lists and in paragraphs to address #114 and #122.

In addition, I have made line-height 1.3em instead of 1.2em everywhere, to try to address #115 and #120. I am not sure how much difference it has made, though.

Regarding #118, the style changes, including Jake’s original ones, are not committed to master yet, but the relevant file when they have been will be public/stylesheets/nlab.css.

In the meantime, I would strongly encourage anybody unhappy to try out changes for themselves, and provide me with concrete suggestions for what to implement. I am not involving my own preferences in this or even thinking actively about how I would improve it, I am just taking orders.

The active version of nlab.css can be found here. To try out changing line-height, say, just look at the HTML source of some page (most browsers have an option for this, e.g. by right clicking on the page), copy a relevant bit into the Sandbox, and add a style="line-height: 1.3em; font-size: 20px" to the <p> tag (or whatever).

Some browsers also have useful debugging functionality, e.g. in Chromium one can right click something and select ’Inspect this element’, and can see all styling that has been applied to it. Firefox has something similar.

• CommentRowNumber127.
• CommentAuthorRichard Williamson
• CommentTime7 days ago
• (edited 7 days ago)

I’m not quite sure what you are referring to in #125, Ali? Ordinary italicised text, or mathematics, or …? The italicised text I see on the page you linked to looks normal to me?

• CommentRowNumber128.
• CommentAuthorAlizter
• CommentTime7 days ago
• (edited 7 days ago)

Compare the italicised text on the forum compared with on the nlab. Its working fine on the page but if it was like it is on the nforum I personally would find it much easier to read. I am aware that there are different fonts being used but I can’t be the only one who finds italicised fonts hard to read (especially when they are really curly on the ends).

5. Ah, then, yes, it is probably the font (a web font version of computer modern). If people wish to change to a different font, let me know (and as in #126, please experiment in the Sandbox to see the effect that the change would have).

• CommentRowNumber130.
• CommentAuthorAlizter
• CommentTime7 days ago

Changing the page font to Trebuchet MS makes it much more readable. I also decreased the font size a bit from 19 to 17.

I however do not want the font to really change since people seem to be in favour of a modern font. I don’t know how to make the italicised version of computer modern just look slanted rather than a different font completely.

I think the fontscience way to say it is: I want oblique rather than italic.

6. I must say that I would be happy to hear others’ opinions about the font. Although it would be great in principle to use Computer Modern, especially since we can use it both for the body text and for mathematics, there is something about the web version that seems slightly off to me, though I’m not sure exactly what it is.

• CommentRowNumber132.
• CommentAuthorMike Shulman
• CommentTime7 days ago

I think the font is good as-is, including italics. At first computer-modern looked odd to me, but then I realized I have no problem reading latexed pdfs on my computer screen, and then it started to look much more normal. Thanks for fixing the bugs, Richard!

I still think there is too much space above and below the page title at the top of the page; if I have some time I’ll try to figure out what could change in the CSS to fix that. Also probably the “Last revised” note at the bottom of the page could be in slightly smaller font. But in general I think it looks quite reasonable and we should give ourselves some time to get used to it and see whether we still have suggestions.

• CommentRowNumber133.
• CommentAuthoratmacen
• CommentTime7 days ago

Re #130: According to W3Schools, CSS has font-style: oblique. But trying it out on a blockquote on the nLab, it seems to do the same thing as italics.

Doing some research, it looks like these web fonts are based on computer modern unicode, which has an oblique “Computer Modern Serif Slanted” family. nLab seems to be getting the font from dreampulse, which seems to include Serif Slanted, despite the README.

I think italics for a whole blockquote might be a bit heavy. What if you use oblique for blockquote, and italics for other usually-italics things?

• CommentRowNumber134.
• CommentAuthorMike Shulman
• CommentTime7 days ago

I suspect that mixing italic with oblique on one page would look odd. But is there a reason that blockquotes need to be either italic or oblique? The quote environment in LaTeX is neither by default.

• CommentRowNumber135.
• CommentAuthorMike Shulman
• CommentTime6 days ago

Okay, it looks like the problem with the page title is that in #91 I failed to specify that it was h1#pagename, not ordinary h1, that I wanted to set margin-top and margin-bottom to 10px. I didn’t realize that the same tag h1 was being used for the page name and also for internal headers.

Regarding the “Last Revised” text, it looks like div#revisedBy is already trying to have smaller text with font-size: .8em, but that’s being overridden by the font-size: 19px of the p tag inside it. I don’t know enough CSS to know the right way to fix this.

• CommentRowNumber136.
• CommentAuthorRichard Williamson
• CommentTime6 days ago
• (edited 6 days ago)

I have made the changes requested in #135 now. Using 10px for margin-bottom was too cramped, I have used 20px instead to try to obtain what I think was the intended effect. It might still be too cramped though, i.e. maybe there should be a little more space between the page title and the table of contents.

I have also made an attempt to improve the styling of the menu at the very bottom of the page.

One thing that strikes me is that having the page title be entirely lowercase now seems a bit strange to me. It worked with the old design, but now it seems to me that it would look better if the first letter were capitalised. Do others have any opinion on this? I can do the capitalisation through a code change if desired, we do not need to edit every page.

• CommentRowNumber137.
• CommentAuthorDavidRoberts
• CommentTime6 days ago

I find WIkipedia’s insistence of capitalising the first letter of the title of every page annoying. You get oddities like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi (when it’s about pi, lowercase, not Pi, uppercase). And e on the nLab for instance would become ’E’.

7. Maybe there could be something added to the syntax to force lowercase titling in such exceptional cases, if that is the only concern?

• CommentRowNumber139.
• CommentAuthorAlec Rhea
• CommentTime5 days ago

I’m not seeing any \to or \rightarrow symbols rendering – it happens on my mac (safari) and my iphone (also safari, so maybe it’s a safari thing). Is this just me? Pic for reference: http://tinypic.com/r/1jaz9j/9

• CommentRowNumber140.
• CommentAuthorMaent
• CommentTime4 days ago
I also have no horizontal arrows rendering (maybe it’s only the right ones) on my ipad.
8. Could you try to see if they display using a different font, following the instructions in #126 say? The relevant part of the CSS file is probably math/mtext.