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nLab > Latest Changes: Gorgias dialogue

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  1.  
    • CommentRowNumber1.
    • CommentAuthorJ-B Vienney
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2022
    • (edited Aug 10th 2022)

    I wanted to create this page to put my favorite extract by Plato. (I’ll try to put references later.)

    v1, current

    • CommentRowNumber2.
    • CommentAuthorUrs
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2022

    Have hyperlinked Plato

    diff, v2, current

    • CommentRowNumber3.
    • CommentAuthorDavid_Corfield
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2022

    Made some adjustments.

    diff, v3, current

    • CommentRowNumber4.
    • CommentAuthorJ-B Vienney
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2022

    Thanks, I’m glad to see the same thing but better written.

    • CommentRowNumber5.
    • CommentAuthorUrs
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2022
    • (edited Aug 10th 2022)

    I found this sentence confusing:

    Whereas discussion is about progressing together towards the truth on a precise question for Socrates, the clarification of the question being also part of the process, it is more about convincing the other for Gorgias.

    First I thought a “the” is missing and this is about a question for Socrates? After re-reading I am assuming the following is meant, and I have taken the liberty of making the replacement:

    Whereas for Socrates a discussion is about progressing together towards the truth regarding a concrete question, for Gorgias it is more about convincing each other, with the clarification of the actual question just being part of the process.

    But please fix if this is not as intended.

    On the other hand, to me this still does not seem to reflect the point of the actual quote that follows: Socrates’ point in this “quote” is that he’d rather be proven wrong if indeed he is, than he’d superficially win a debate.

    diff, v4, current

    • CommentRowNumber6.
    • CommentAuthorJ-B Vienney
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2022
    • (edited Aug 10th 2022)

    This is Socrates who wants to clarify the question during the debate. I’ve written on “a precise question”, so it was a little confusing. This is not specific to Gorgias. All the dialogues by Plato follow the same scheme. We can see this idea in the quote, in the part not in bold

    «  You, Gorgias, like myself, have had great experience of disputations, and you must have observed, I think, that they do not always terminate in mutual edification, or in the definition by either party of the subjects which they are discussing […]. »

    It would be more precise to say that Socrates is looking for a definition of a term. For this dialogue this term is « rethoric ». It looks that in fact they are more discussing about rethoric than just trying to find a definition of a term. This is why I’ve preferred saying that they clarify a question which seems more natural in modern language. I find that the idea of finding a definition is more clearly followed in the dialogue « Menon » where they discuss what is virtue.

    But the topic of the dialogue is wider than the question of what is a discussion.

    Also, the quote is to illustrate mainly this part:

    Early in the dialogue, Plato specifies the conditions of a good discussion between two partners. Perhaps, it would be good to agree on this before any discussion, including mathematical discussions.

    I’m going to clarify this. But I need to make a fast lecture of the dialogue to have a more organized thinking.

1 to 6 of 6

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