Not signed in (Sign In)

Not signed in

Want to take part in these discussions? Sign in if you have an account, or apply for one below

  • Sign in using OpenID

Site Tag Cloud

2-category 2-category-theory abelian-categories adjoint algebra algebraic algebraic-geometry algebraic-topology analysis analytic-geometry arithmetic arithmetic-geometry book bundles calculus categorical categories category category-theory chern-weil-theory cohesion cohesive-homotopy-type-theory cohomology colimits combinatorics complex complex-geometry computable-mathematics computer-science constructive cosmology deformation-theory descent diagrams differential differential-cohomology differential-equations differential-geometry digraphs duality elliptic-cohomology enriched fibration foundation foundations functional-analysis functor gauge-theory gebra geometric-quantization geometry graph graphs gravity grothendieck group group-theory harmonic-analysis higher higher-algebra higher-category-theory higher-differential-geometry higher-geometry higher-lie-theory higher-topos-theory homological homological-algebra homotopy homotopy-theory homotopy-type-theory index-theory integration integration-theory k-theory lie-theory limits linear linear-algebra locale localization logic mathematics measure-theory modal modal-logic model model-category-theory monad monads monoidal monoidal-category-theory morphism motives motivic-cohomology nforum nlab noncommutative noncommutative-geometry number-theory of operads operator operator-algebra order-theory pages pasting philosophy physics pro-object probability probability-theory quantization quantum quantum-field quantum-field-theory quantum-mechanics quantum-physics quantum-theory question representation representation-theory riemannian-geometry scheme schemes set set-theory sheaf sheaves simplicial space spin-geometry stable-homotopy-theory stack string string-theory superalgebra supergeometry svg symplectic-geometry synthetic-differential-geometry terminology theory topology topos topos-theory tqft type type-theory universal variational-calculus

Vanilla 1.1.10 is a product of Lussumo. More Information: Documentation, Community Support.

Welcome to nForum
If you want to take part in these discussions either sign in now (if you have an account), apply for one now (if you don't).
    • CommentRowNumber1.
    • CommentAuthorMike Shulman
    • CommentTimeJun 19th 2013

    In my copy of “Pursuing Stacks” on p40 there is the following passage:

    The notion of a ??? here appears as the unifying concept for a synthesis of ??? and ???. This (rather than merely furnishing us with still another description of homotopy types, more convenient for expression of the homotopy groups) seems to me the real “raison d’etre” of the notion of a stack…

    The ???s are blacked out. Given the second sentence, I presume that the first ??? should be “stack”. But does anyone know what the other ???s might be?

    • CommentRowNumber2.
    • CommentAuthorUrs
    • CommentTimeJun 19th 2013
    • (edited Jun 19th 2013)

    I don’t know what it was, but I know what it should be :-) it should be “geometry” and “homotopy theory”.

    The notion of a stack here appears as the unifying concept for a synthesis of geometry and homotopy theory.

    • CommentRowNumber3.
    • CommentAuthorDavidRoberts
    • CommentTimeJun 20th 2013

    I’ve mentioned this to someone I know on G+ who has an early generation copy (inherited from a student of our Tim Porter). The quality is very good, so the words my still be unredacted.

    • CommentRowNumber4.
    • CommentAuthorDavid_Corfield
    • CommentTimeJun 20th 2013

    I can’t read djvu files at the moment, but the French should be clear enough here.

    • CommentRowNumber5.
    • CommentAuthormetanaratif
    • CommentTimeJun 20th 2013
    Dear Mike Shulman, I happened to have an early generation copy of Grothedieck's Pursuing Stack which is crystal clear. I will try to address the missing words you mention here hopefully by tomorrow.
    • CommentRowNumber6.
    • CommentAuthorMike Shulman
    • CommentTimeJun 20th 2013

    @Urs: that’s one possibility. However, the first ??? is incompletely blacked out, and it looks like it ends with “algebra”. Perhaps “homotopical algebra”?

    @David C: That’s the same djvu file as the copy I have.

    • CommentRowNumber7.
    • CommentAuthorTim_Porter
    • CommentTimeJun 20th 2013

    I can look if you cannot resolve it, but I suggest you contact George Maltsiniotis as he has produced the latex version and will have grappled with such things. (As I said, my copy is in a pile upstairs here and if I pull it out the pile will collapse… it probably will anyway… :-( ) I do not know if Ronnie is reading this he has an early copy, of course.

    • CommentRowNumber8.
    • CommentAuthorMike Shulman
    • CommentTimeJun 20th 2013

    Is there a latex version available somewhere?

    • CommentRowNumber9.
    • CommentAuthorGuest
    • CommentTimeJun 20th 2013
    George has had it latexed and can probably answer your query. If you don't want to ask him directly, contact Denis-Charles and ask if he has the answer to your query.
    • CommentRowNumber10.
    • CommentAuthorTim_Porter
    • CommentTimeJun 20th 2013

    That Guest was me, as I did not realised that I had been timed out.

    • CommentRowNumber11.
    • CommentAuthormetanaratif
    • CommentTimeJun 21st 2013
    Dear Mike Shulman and others,

    The 3 missing words happened to be: stack, homotopical algebra, non commutative cohomological algebra.

    Therefore the excerpt goes as follows:

    "The notion of a stack here appears as the unifying concept for a synthesis of homotopical algebra and non commutative cohomological algebra. This (rather than merely furnishing us with still another description of homotopy types, more convenient for expression of the homotopy groups) seems to me the real “raison d’etre” of the notion of a stack…"

    However in this copy of mine, this very excerpt occurs on page 6, under the subtopic no. 16 "Stack over topoi as the unifying concept for homotopical and cohomological algebra.
    • CommentRowNumber12.
    • CommentAuthorMike Shulman
    • CommentTimeJun 21st 2013

    Thanks very much! I wonder how they came to be blacked out in the djvu version.

    • CommentRowNumber13.
    • CommentAuthoradeelkh
    • CommentTimeJun 21st 2013
    I imagine it was just someone using a highlighter.
    • CommentRowNumber14.
    • CommentAuthorTim_Porter
    • CommentTimeJun 21st 2013

    Thought! If someone used a highlighter in a colour and then the document was scanned in B&W the scan may not be able to pierce the colour, even though it was only be something like a yellow. I have known such things happen with photocopying.

    • CommentRowNumber15.
    • CommentAuthorTodd_Trimble
    • CommentTimeJun 21st 2013

    It would be much more exciting if somehow Grothendieck’s thoughts were considered so high-powered that they must be kept secret, and this is the government redacting key phrases of the document! ;-)

    • CommentRowNumber16.
    • CommentAuthorMike Shulman
    • CommentTimeJun 21st 2013

    @Tim, that sounds plausible!

    • CommentRowNumber17.
    • CommentAuthorUrs
    • CommentTimeJun 21st 2013

    Hm, so what is meant by “cohomological algebra” as opposed to “homotopical algebra”?

    Does the text go into more detail as to what is meant by this “synthesis”?

    • CommentRowNumber18.
    • CommentAuthorTobyBartels
    • CommentTimeJun 22nd 2013
    • (edited Jun 22nd 2013)

    Haven't we discussed before the duality between homotopy theory and nonabelian cohomology theory? ETA: Yes, here at the Café.

    • CommentRowNumber19.
    • CommentAuthorTim_Porter
    • CommentTimeJun 22nd 2013

    On the djvu tiff version that I have on my laptop, there are quite a few passages that are black like that.

    • CommentRowNumber20.
    • CommentAuthorUrs
    • CommentTimeJun 22nd 2013

    Haven’t we discussed before the duality between homotopy theory and nonabelian cohomology theory?

    But stacks are not what make that duality happen. That’s a duality in homotopy theory, which one can then transport to what I would call the “geometric homotopy theory” of (higher) stacks.

    And is that what Grothendieck was referring to, anyway? Are there any futher indications as to which “synthesis” he had in mind?

    • CommentRowNumber21.
    • CommentAuthorMike Shulman
    • CommentTimeJun 23rd 2013

    Perhaps Grothendieck may have meant by “homotopical algebra” to refer to cohomology theories with coefficients in abelian sheaves, which are often calculated by resolving the coefficients, and by “(nonabelian) cohomology theory” to refer to cohomology with coefficients in more geometric objects such as naturally arising stacks of torsors, etc., which are often calculated by resolving the space (Cech covers and hypercovers). These may seem obviously two sides of the same coin to us now, but that may not have been so much the case back then? And the homotopy theory of (higher) stacks is in fact what unifies them, right? injective resolutions of abelian sheaves yield fibrant replacements in model categories for stacks that are generated by localizing at Cech covers.

    • CommentRowNumber22.
    • CommentAuthorTim_Porter
    • CommentTimeJun 23rd 2013

    Without searching in PS I think you are right, Mike. He talks about resolving the ‘space’ or the coefficients and the link between them. I think the two approaches were seen to be equivalent even then but it was not clear why.

    • CommentRowNumber23.
    • CommentAuthorUrs
    • CommentTimeJun 23rd 2013
    • (edited Jun 23rd 2013)

    I see, so the “synthesis” meant would then be that between abelian sheaf cohomology theory and nonabelian cohomology.

    (Maybe it’s more a generalization than a synthesis, as made first fully clear in K. Brown, 73, I suppose. )

    (I’d be tempted to argue that “homotopical algebra” is not a good synonym for “abelian sheaf cohomology”, but I guess for various reasons I am not in the position to argue about anything here… ;-)

    • CommentRowNumber24.
    • CommentAuthorTim_Porter
    • CommentTimeJun 23rd 2013

    I suspect that we need to refer back to the exact wording and context of what AG said to see what is a reasonable interpretation of it!

    • CommentRowNumber25.
    • CommentAuthorTim_Porter
    • CommentTimeJun 24th 2013
    • (edited Jun 24th 2013)

    I have found a box file with my copy of PS in it. (As I suspected it WAS right at the bottom of a pile of other boxes!) I will look to see what the discussion near those pages refers to. (NB. As my copy was ’raided’ at certain times for photocopying a missing page or whatever, it is not 100% in order, nor guaranteed to be ’complete’, but if there are queries I may be able to give some help.)

    • CommentRowNumber26.
    • CommentAuthorTim_Porter
    • CommentTimeJun 24th 2013

    BTW page 40 of the dejavu tif file is page 6 of the typed manuscript, but that does not mean that it is the 6th side as AG often added bits and renumbered.

    • CommentRowNumber27.
    • CommentAuthorDavidRoberts
    • CommentTimeJun 24th 2013

    I recall that the contents pages were numerous, so they probably throw the page count out a fair bit.

    • CommentRowNumber28.
    • CommentAuthorMike Shulman
    • CommentTimeJun 24th 2013

    I’d be tempted to argue that “homotopical algebra” is not a good synonym for “abelian sheaf cohomology”

    I would agree with you, but the point is just that Grothendieck may have been using it that way.