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    • CommentRowNumber1.
    • CommentAuthorUrs
    • CommentTimeJan 4th 2012
    • CommentRowNumber2.
    • CommentAuthorTim_Porter
    • CommentTimeJan 4th 2012
    • (edited Jan 4th 2012)

    but étale homotopy does not just handle the homotopy groups so this may be too drastic! It describes the THEORY as well so the title is now inaccurate. The subject as put forward by Artin and Mazur really centers on the profinite completion functor and other related things. there need to be links here but your change may not be optimal.

    • CommentRowNumber3.
    • CommentAuthorUrs
    • CommentTimeJan 5th 2012
    • (edited Jan 5th 2012)

    Like many things on the nnLab, this is not optimal, but for the moment I think it is better to have the redirect than to not have it.

    But notice that the entry is also not just about homotopy groups. The main restriction is rather that the entry talks about the locally \infty-connected case (which is also the reason why the need for pro-completion disappears).

    Somebody should write the generalization to the locally connected case that is usually considered in the context of étale homotopy.

    (It keeps making me wonder, though: étale homotopy of topological spaces comes out wrong if the space is not locally \infty-connected. This makes me feel that assuming local \infty-connectedness generally is “good”. But maybe that is too naive.)

    • CommentRowNumber4.
    • CommentAuthorTim_Porter
    • CommentTimeJan 5th 2012

    What is ‘wrong’? Is it not just shape theory? and that corresponds to nice things for C^*-algebras.

    • CommentRowNumber5.
    • CommentAuthorTim_Porter
    • CommentTimeJan 5th 2012
    • (edited Jan 5th 2012)

    Strictly étale homotopy should not make that much sense for ordinary spaces as it refers to the homotopy theory relative to the étale topology and that is not a topological notion in its origin.

    But notice that the entry is also not just about homotopy groups. The main restriction is rather that the entry talks about the locally ∞-connected case

    But the title refers to homotopy groups not homotopy types! The restriction is then too strong as the non-locally \infty-connected case is also important.

    • CommentRowNumber6.
    • CommentAuthorUrs
    • CommentTimeJan 5th 2012
    • (edited Jan 5th 2012)

    What is ‘wrong’?

    The homotopy groups of a topological space are those computed by its étale homotopy only if the space is locally contractible. This is the original result of Artin-Mazur. The entry geometric homotopy groups in an (infinity,1)-topos also explains “why” this is so: only the in the locally \infty-connected case is the corresponding \infty-topos locally \infty-connected and then the central statement of étale homotopy / higher Galois theory simply follows from the (ΠDisc)(\Pi \dashv Disc)-adjunction.

    Strictly étale homotopy should not make that much sense for ordinary spaces

    It makes sense for every locally connected site and every locally connected topos. See

    • Ieke Moerdijk, Classifying Spaces and Classifying Topoi Lecture Notes in Mathematics 1616, Springer (1995)

    for a review (or, for that matter, the above nnLab entry).

    But the title refers to homotopy groups not homotopy types!

    Sure, things could be written in a better way. But for the moment I neverthess think that “étale homotopy” should redirect to that entry, because that entry discusses étale homotopy.

    Eventually somebody will find the time to beautify the corresponding nnLab entries further. There are lots of points that would deserve improvement.

    • CommentRowNumber7.
    • CommentAuthorTim_Porter
    • CommentTimeJan 5th 2012

    I’m afraid I continue to disagree. You say ’that entry discusses étale homotopy’ but it only discusses étale homotopy in a very special case, not in general. It does discuss the étale homotopy of locally \infty-connected sites, but the subject of étale homotopy is not restricted to such sites. so this should be clear from the entry.

    • CommentRowNumber8.
    • CommentAuthorUrs
    • CommentTimeJan 5th 2012

    I’m afraid I continue to disagree.

    No, I agree with that! :-) As I said in #3.

    • CommentRowNumber9.
    • CommentAuthorTim_Porter
    • CommentTimeJan 5th 2012

    When I have some time I will see if I can come up with some suggestions for redistribution of material so that various other bits of work (e.g. work of Isaksen and Quick) will fit in… but it can wait!! Happy New Year.

    • CommentRowNumber10.
    • CommentAuthorMike Shulman
    • CommentTimeJan 10th 2012

    @Tim: would it be better if étale homotopy redirected to shape of an (infinity,1)-topos?

    Probably eventually, étale homotopy theory should be its own page. Maybe it would be worth making it a stub right now.

    • CommentRowNumber11.
    • CommentAuthorUrs
    • CommentTimeJan 10th 2012

    Right, I should have done that right away. I tried to save myself the time, but that strategy didn’t work out ;-).

    Here are some first words: étale homotopy.

    To be expanded (by whoever feels like expanding!).

    • CommentRowNumber12.
    • CommentAuthorTim_Porter
    • CommentTimeJan 11th 2012
    • (edited Jan 11th 2012)

    No. 9 I think the étale homotopy should have its own page with a link to shape etc. I have some material that can be adapted, but not for today. :-(

    No. 10 Urs: that looks a good start.

    • CommentRowNumber13.
    • CommentAuthorTim_Porter
    • CommentTimeJan 11th 2012

    On the other hand, the new sentence you added at nerve theorem sort of does not make sense. I have suggested an amednment there , so check that you are ok with it.

    • CommentRowNumber14.
    • CommentAuthorUrs
    • CommentTimeJan 11th 2012
    • (edited Jan 11th 2012)

    Hi Tim,

    I can live with your version.

    But I am not sure why the previous version “sort of does not make sense”.

    The point that I think is important here is that for paracompact spaces the limit over hypercovers that one has to take in the explicitl definition of etale homotopy type localizes at the Cech nerve of any good cover (since these always exist and are already cofibrant in the projective model structure!).

    In this sense the nerve theorem is an avatar of the full definition in a simple special case.

    • CommentRowNumber15.
    • CommentAuthorTim_Porter
    • CommentTimeJan 11th 2012

    I found it did not work ’linguistically’, but I also think that the nerve theory is not central to étale homotopy. That grew out of the corresponding cohomology theory and includes profinite completion, links with Galois theory, use of pro-objects etc., and the study of objects for which the nerve theorem does not apply as they do not have good covers. They are not even topological spaces. The sentence therefore ended up being too restrictive and might have put some people off (e.g. Algebraic geometers).

    It is interesting to Google on étale homotopy and see what areas it is being applied to, e.g. a recent paper (ETALE HOMOTOPY AND SUMS-OF-SQUARES FORMULAS, DANIEL DUGGER AND DANIEL C. ISAKSEN ). There is also work on étale homotopy type of Voevodsky spaces about 10 years ago, Geirion QUick’s work on profinite homotopy and étale realisations, and Jon Pridhams (http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/0712/0712.0928v4.pdf), and that is just picking at random. But the effect of your sentence was almost to suggest that étale homotopy theory really was about classical homotopy types. You may not have intended that, or you may feel that by going to the \infty-topos context they all become somehow comparable but I think the Artin-Mazur approach suitably modernised deserves a better ’press’ in the nLab than it has had so far…. hence my change.

    • CommentRowNumber16.
    • CommentAuthorUrs
    • CommentTimeJan 11th 2012
    • (edited Jan 11th 2012)

    I also think that the nerve theory is not central to étale homotopy. […] and the study of objects for which the nerve theorem does not apply as they do not have good covers. They are not even topological spaces. The sentence therefore ended up being too restrictive and might have put some people off (e.g. Algebraic geometers).

    I don’t understand why you think any of this is in contradiction with a sentence that briefly asserted “that we have here a special case” of étale homotopy.

    Notice also that your modification of the sentence still says that. Also this very statement is currently the lead-in at etale homotopy itself, which you called a “good start”.

    So I don’t understand what you say is wrong. But since we seem to agree now on what is in the entries, it’s not so important. Let’s leave it at that.

    • CommentRowNumber17.
    • CommentAuthorTim_Porter
    • CommentTimeJan 11th 2012

    Fine by me.

    • CommentRowNumber18.
    • CommentAuthoradeelkh
    • CommentTimeApr 15th 2013
    • (edited Apr 15th 2013)

    Added the reference

    • Tomer Schlank, Alexei Skorobogatov, A very brief introduction to étale homotopy. In: “Torsors, étale homotopy and applications to rational points”. LMS Lecture Note Series 405, Cambridge University Press, 2013. (pdf)
    • CommentRowNumber19.
    • CommentAuthorTim_Porter
    • CommentTimeApr 16th 2013

    Thanks. That looks useful.

    • CommentRowNumber20.
    • CommentAuthorUrs
    • CommentTimeJun 5th 2014

    added two kinds of examples related to étale (non-)contractibiity.

    • CommentRowNumber21.
    • CommentAuthorUrs
    • CommentTimeJun 7th 2014

    I have added some more of the fundamental references with brief comments.

    In the course of this I also added a remark to analytification on Relation to etale homotopy type. (But that whole entry on analytification is in need of attenion.)

    • CommentRowNumber22.
    • CommentAuthorUrs
    • CommentTimeNov 25th 2015

    Have added a pointer to

    at étale homotopy.

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