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I see that Eric has started a putative bibliography on the n-lab.
Much as I like Instiki, and the n-lab in particular, I think that references might be best served by a system specifically designed for references. I realise that I am proposing yet another extension to the n-group, which some people may not relish, but I think that such a system has major advantages. For example, the following are generally available on these systems:
The single advantage of an internal page that I can think of is that one can use Wiki-links to link to a reference. I suspect that the Wiki-link mechanism could easily be subverted to allow Wiki-links to a certain number of external sites (so that, for example, vector space (wikipedia) redirected to the wikipedia page on vector spaces rather than the local one) so I don't see this as a major reason for sticking with an internal system.
I've been adapting RefBase to make it mathematically-friendly so it would be easy to set this up for the n-lab. You can see my version of it here though certain features, such as the arXiv and MathSciNet features won't be visible as they are only available to account-holders (currently only me).
How do we integrate this with the Lab?
Depends on what you mean by "integrate". If by that you mean it becomes a part of Instiki then I don't think that you can. However, as great as Instiki is I don't think we should consider it to be the only weapon in the n-armoury. So I would have a bibliographic database running alongside the n-lab (preferably on the same host, but only once that has stabilised) and to integrate it with the n-lab all it would take would be the modification that I suggested to Wikilinks. If it's on the same host, even that might not be necessary since one could presumably write: (A.N. Other)[/nRefs/unique_record_identifier]
which is almost as short as bibliography#ref
.
OK, that works for one direction; presumably it would take us to a page like
http://www.math.ntnu.no/~stacey/RefBase/search.php?sqlQuery=SELECT%20author%2C%20title%2C%20type%2C%20year%2C%20publication%2C%20abbrev_journal%2C%20volume%2C%20issue%2C%20pages%2C%20keywords%2C%20abstract%2C%20address%2C%20corporate_author%2C%20thesis%2C%20publisher%2C%20place%2C%20editor%2C%20language%2C%20summary_language%2C%20orig_title%2C%20series_editor%2C%20series_title%2C%20abbrev_series_title%2C%20series_volume%2C%20series_issue%2C%20edition%2C%20issn%2C%20isbn%2C%20medium%2C%20area%2C%20expedition%2C%20conference%2C%20notes%2C%20approved%2C%20call_number%2C%20serial%20FROM%20refs%20WHERE%20serial%20%3D%201596%20ORDER%20BY%20author%2C%20year%20DESC%2C%20publication&client=&formType=sqlSearch&submit=Display&viewType=&showQuery=0&showLinks=1&showRows=5&rowOffset=&wrapResults=1&citeOrder=&citeStyle=APA&exportFormat=RIS&exportType=html&exportStylesheet=&citeType=html&headerMsg=
which I got by clicking around on your example there. Hopefully there is some shorter URL to get that page directly, in line with your example above, although I couldn't figure out how to make it appreciably shorter myself.
How about in the reverse direction? Although you mostly can't do it now, on Eric's bibliography page we could (and should) link the names of the authors to pages about them on the Lab.
One possibility is to use both Eric's page and your database. It's easy for Eric's page to link to your database; even the monstrous URI above can be added once by whoever adds the reference to the base. And of course we can link the refbase as a whole from the top of the bibliography page. But every other page would link only to the bibliography page, and the refbase would be more added on than integrated.
I can see that it would be neat to query a database to find, for example, every arXiv paper written by John Baez or Ross Street. (The most likely query, for a single author, can be done on the bibliography page if alphabetical order is observed. But other queries would be nice too.) So I would like your database if:
Then that would really be integrated, from the persepective of the user even if not the software.
The simplest URL that I've found as yet is:
http://www.math.ntnu.no/~stacey/RefBase/show.php?record=930
Of course you have to look up the record (serial) number but then you'd have to look up the exact citation whatever method was used. There's a "simple search" facility which looks a little simpler than the main search one. I suspect that the authors weren't too bothered about keeping their URLs short but it wouldn't be too hard to modify matters so that missing variables had reasonable defaults. That way
http://www.math.ntnu.no/~stacey/RefBase/simple_search.php?author=Baez
would give something reasonable. I'm actively using this database and modifying it to be useful so doing something like this would be (I hope) simple.
Okay, it wasn't too hard. Try:
http://www.math.ntnu.no/~stacey/refsearch.php?author=baez
It's lifted from the 'quick search' facility that you get on the main page so you can put any of the field names from the drop down list instead of the author (if you specify more than one, only one will be used, and 'main fields' should be 'main_fields').
Reverse links are partially possible. Each record can have a URL associated with it so we could link an individual paper back to the n-lab. I'm not sure about linking authors. One could envisage hacking the code to automatically hyperlink each author, but two issues occur to me. Firstly, author names are not easy to define or separate (some of the regexps I've seen are quite astonishing) so making this truly automatic will be tricky. Also, what do we do with authors who don't have an n-lab page?
Hmm, we could link to a search on that person's surname by default. Presumably you'd want a way of overriding the default and manually putting in a link into the database. Problem is that the database is for records and not authors so you'd need to do a cross-check with an author database to look for a URL to link to. Possible, but more work.
Still, even the automatic search on the surname takes you to within a click of the right page and is a lot less work than going through the Instiki page line by line adding in the correct links.
Still, even the automatic search on the surname takes you to within a click of the right page and is a lot less work than going through the Instiki page line by line adding in the correct links.
I'm not sure what this is referring to. If you mean adding links to Bibliography, then that's just what I'd like to do if we can't get author links automatically in some fashion. Or I could add them entry by entry to the database if there's some way to do that.
If an author doesn't have a Lab page, then we should link their name to their (nonexistent) Lab page anyway. That's how pages get created! (^_^)
If a record can have a URL, then here is one possibility:
This means that people won't even look at the RefBase most of the time, but it will be available if they want to do something fancy. It also means that most entries will be typed in twice, with help only from copy and paste. That doesn't seem to onerous for the flexibility that we get, but if you can put all of this flexibility into RefBase, then that would be even better! (In particular, if we can put <A href>
tags in arbitrary fields, to be ignored by the searching, then that would be ideal, and the RefBase can do everything that the Bibliography would. Even better if we don't have to type the full URI by hand.)
Eric, I completely agree. It would be nice to have everything in the same place. I'd even happily move this forum! However, given the current state of the host then I'm not putting this as a high priority. Once the host gets sorted out then we can migrate all the "partner" apps across.
Toby, when I was talking about automatic links then I was thinking that I could modify RefBase so that each author was automatically hyperlinked to the search on the n-lab of their surname.
If you want a bibliography page on the n-lab then it should be fairly simple to generate that automatically from RefBase - it has various export facilities.
I tested putting hyperlinks in the fields and it didn't work. We'd need some other way of encoding it. It really depends on how automatic the process should be. I'd go for as automatic as possible which would mean something like I suggested: names get linked to a search on their surname. Again, the problem with a direct link (rather than a search link) is figuring out exactly what their Instiki name is from their published name. A search bypasses this. There are other ways around this (giving each author a unique id - like their MathSciNet number for example).
I'll need to dig a little deeper into the code to see what exactly is possible. It'd be useful to have a few of the fields hyperlinkable (arXiv reference, MathSciNet reference and the like).
Again, the problem with a direct link (rather than a search link) is figuring out exactly what their Instiki name is from their published name.
That's hard to do automatically, true. But could you have it automatically link to Baez, J.C. etc? Then we can create a redirect; there's only so many names that each author uses. (There is a problem that Instiki doesn't like periods in page names. Surely we can get around that one way or another.)
All in all, I still feel like the Bibliography will be more useful. Maybe I should start fixing it up to work how I envision it, so that this will be more than just a feeling.
It seems that links are fairly straightforward. I've modified it so that if there is an arxiv number or a mathscinet number then it generates links to those. The simplest way to do this was to add it to the list of links that appears on the right-hand side of an entry when you click on the full details. This was a quick "is it possible" hack so it probably doesn't work properly for everything (I haven't tested it for all incarnations of the arXiv ID, for example).
As for the author fields, I'm so close! The program has the facility to add search-and-replace filters to each field. So I've specified a filter which replaces author's names by hyperlinked names. This works except for the problem with periods. For example, if you go to this record and click on the author's names then you will find that it works for one but not for the other.
I'm not sure if it's possible to get round this with a simple filter. It might be a quite horrendous piece of regexp to get it to work and may be easier simply to hack the main script. Still, at least it looks fairly doable.
This also means that it would be possible to make the arXiv and MathSciNet references directly hyperlinkable, rather than with the icons as at the moment (I did those before I found out about the filters).
All in all, I still feel like the Bibliography will be more useful. Maybe I should start fixing it up to work how I envision it, so that this will be more than just a feeling.
Yes, do that. I'm not clear as to what functionality the bibliography page allows that can't be supplied by a database system such as RefBase.
I'll bet that we can get Jacques to fix the problem with the periods; it's entirely on Instiki's end. (Possibly he'll solve it in such a way that you'll have to change .
into %2E
, but I presume that you can handle that.) I'm sending him an email now.
Works now - I think. The trick was to use the fact that you can put PHP code in the replacement text so run the name through an additional filter which replaces spaces and periods by +. Thus 'John C. Baez' now links to 'John+C+Baez'. So creating redirects to all reasonable permutations of someone's name should suffice.
I suppose that to be extra safe I should also run it through htmlspecialchars or some such function as it doesn't check for funny characters.
Okay, anything else you can think of to add?
I'll bet that we can get Jacques to fix the problem with the periods
No, apparently it's very deep in Rails, and he wouldn't know how to fix it he wanted to. So fortunately you got it to work on your end. (^_^)
I asked Jacques if he could just silently drop the periods. He implied that this was possible, but he was unwilling to do so.
I'm starting to think that it might be good if you or I, Andrew, learn how to program Instiki for ourselves.
I could also see about digging into the code. I managed to get Mediawiki installed on a (now decommissioned) PC. It shouldn't be that hard to get Instiki installed on my laptop.
Bleugh! You mean you want me to learn ruby as well as javascript? I've enough hassles trying to keep perl and PHP separate in my mind.
Anyway, this is off-topic and your statement "learn how to program Instiki for ourselves" is a little ambiguous. If you are serious about this, can you expand on that a little as to what you envision and what it would entail (two 'en' verbs in one sentence!). In a new discussion, of course.
For this one I want to know what other functionality you want from the bibliography! I'm on a roll with that right now (and horribly neglecting my project to do diagrams while I'm at it).
(I notice that adding the links in to the names looks wrong on the front page. Fix one thing, break another.)
(I notice that adding the links in to the names looks wrong on the front page. Fix one thing, break another.)
Fixed that.
I just came across some comments on the Timeline page indicating that people were wanting some bibliographic system and were waiting for us to get it sorted out. I shall forgo the rant about what was the point of putting those comments there and merely say, shall we get some system going?
Whilst Eric would like everything under the same roof, stuff can be moved after the fact with, hopefully, minimum disruption. In fact, if we're a bit clever with rewrite rules then we can make it appear that everything is under the same roof without it actually being so.
So here's a decision for you all: shall I install a RefBase-based system for the n-lab?
(I'll put something over on the 'lab as well to get more comments).
I have to go to bed now. Tomorrow I will set up Bibliography so that it does what I think that it can and should do. Then if you, Andrew, say that you can do all of that RefBase (and implement it), then I'll be happy. (If we just use Bibliography, then I'll be happy too.)
Hang on, before you set up bibliography so that it does what you think that it can and should do, what about automatically generating it from the RefBase database?
Having two places that people have to add information to seems like too much to expect of them. It's easier to go from RefBase to a flat bibliography in Instiki than vice versa so why not make the bibliography page generated from RefBase?
I must admit, though, that I'm still not completely sure why you want a page inside Instiki. What functionality would that provide that a database-driven system wouldn't?
I notice that a recent post to the café invokes
http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/~simon/quantum/
which is a bibliography created from a bibtex file.
Is it worth refloating the idea of a cumulative bibtex archive with a front end a bit like that?
The main issue is integrating it with Instiki. Jacques has thought about this from time to time but hasn't found the best way to do it yet.
However, we could always install RefBase on mathforge for people to use as a central repository and see how it goes. I use it, you can see my installation at:
http://www.math.ntnu.no/~stacey/RefBase
(there's lots more features if you have a 'login')
What is this about ? I like to adjust the precision in quoting to the entry. Sometimes it is just a link to the references, sometimes full quote, and in entries on people I skip the name in same/name listings and so on. It is good to have a unique source but having automatical format uniform across the various entries may be counterproductive for clarity and function.
Tim, you brought the subject back up again, did you have anything particular in mind?
I think that there are two threads to this question. One is having native bibliographic support in Instiki. That would be great (with reasonable flexibility as Zoran would like), but needs a lot of work from Jacques and a lot of thought on how to design it. The other is having some sort of shared reference system for the "nGroup". This would be much easier as there are lots of systems out there that basically already do that. There could be some sort of linking back to the nLab, just as the nForum easily links back.
As with the nLab itself, the main advantage would be in pooling resources. When looking for papers to read on, say, topos theory I wouldn't have to search MathSciNet for "topos" but would go to the nLab reference database and see what nLabbers had tagged as being relevant for "topos theory".
I just lost 10 lines of a comment! OOPS!
I find that it takes a long time to find a reasonable bibtex for a source (I do not have access to MathSci nor Zblatt). if without too much hassle we could pool information of bibtex form then it would be useful to me. The problem of balance between effort to set it up and the probable use is the crucial thing.
I recalled there had been discussion on this sort of thing so thought it worth raising to see if anyone had any new thoughts. (I use BibDesk on a MacBook to manage my databases. it works well.)
I like the idea of installing RefBase or something like it on mathforge, especially hacked with links back to the nLab. And from the nLab we could at least type, say, [reference](/refbase/show.php?record=xxx) to link to the reference.
I am archiving below the contents of an old discussion that was at a page ’Bibliography’, which I will now make empty, as Google picks it up whilst searching, which is unfortunate with the new Bibliography now up.
Eric: I had the idea that maybe we can create a comprehensive bibliography here. Then, within a page when you want to provide a reference you can simply provide a link to this page with an anchor placed at the appropriate article. Html anchors work on the nLab, right? What do you think?
Toby: That's a good idea! References like ’Bat3’ are really not going to work, however; we could try APA-style ’Batanin 2003’ (although that will also be ambiguous sometimes). Of course, anything on the arXiv has a unique identifier …. I'll see what I can do about getting anchors on this page so that we can test it out.
Eric: I think Bruce figured it out on that recent conference page. Found it
Oberwolfach Workshop, June 2009 – Strings, Fields, Topology
Eric: Oh! Oh! Can we do a redirect to an anchor??? For example, have Goldblatt1984 redirect to ? Or something…
Toby: Not with the current software. But we can add redirect commands (not just anchors) to each entry and then trust that, when people click on ’Goldblatt1984’ and arrive at this page, they'll have the sense to search the page for ’Goldblatt1984’. (Also, check out the Sandbox now.)
Eric: Nice. I like what you did in the Sandbox. Now all we need is a standardized bib reference and can think about encouraging others to use this method.
Toby: Yes, for instance we need to decide whether the standard has a space or not. (I like a space, although it's true that it makes hand-crafted URIs trickier. Although we might be able to get Jacques to fix that.)
These are just incomplete examples in need of formatting adjustments, etc:
[Goldblatt1984] Goldblatt, “Topoi: The Categorial Analysis of Logic” !redirects Goldblatt1984
MacLane, “Categories for the Working Mathematician”
J. Baez and J. Dolan,
_Higher-dimensional algebra III: $n$-categories and the
algebra of opetopes,
Adv. Math. 135 (1998),
145–206.
(arXiv)
M. Batanin, Monoidal globular categories as natural environment for the theory of weak $n$-categories, Adv. Math. 136 (1998), 39–103.
M. Batanin, The Eckmann–Hilton argument, higher operads and $E_n$-spaces. (arXiv)
M. Batanin, The combinatorics of iterated loop spaces. (arXiv)
J. Bénabou, Introduction to bicategories, in Reports of the Midwest Category Seminar , Springer, Berlin, 1967, pp. 1–77.
C. Berger,
Iterated wreath product of the
simplex category and iterated loop spaces
Adv. Math. 213
(2007), 230–270.
(arXiv)
C. Berger,
_A cellular nerve for higher categories,
Adv. Math. 169 (2002), 118–175.
(web)
J. Bergner,
A model category structure on the category of
simplicial categories,
Trans. Amer. Math. Soc. 359 (2007), 2043-2058.
(arXiv)
J. Bergner,
Three models of the homotopy theory
of homotopy theory ,
Topology 46 (2006),
1925–1955.
(arXiv)
R. Brown, P. Higgins and R. Sivera, nonabelian algebraic topology|Nonabelian Algebraic Topology: Higher Homotopy Groupoids of Filtered Spaces (web)
(BD1) J. Baez and J. Dolan, Higher-dimensional algebra III: $n$-categories and the algebra of opetopes, Adv. Math. 135 (1998), 145–206. (arXiv)
(Bat1) M. Batanin, Monoidal globular categories as natural environment for the theory of weak $n$-categories, Adv. Math. 136 (1998), 39–103.
(Bat2) M. Batanin, The Eckmann–Hilton argument, higher operads and $E_n$-spaces. (arXiv)
(Bat3) M. Batanin, The combinatorics of iterated loop spaces. (arXiv)
(Benabou) J. Bénabou, Introduction to bicategories, in Reports of the Midwest Category Seminar, Springer, Berlin, 1967, pp. 1–77.
(Berger1) C. Berger, Iterated wreath product of the simplex category and iterated loop spaces, Adv. Math. 213 (2007), 230–270. (arXiv)
(Berger) C. Berger, A cellular nerve for higher categories, Adv. Math. 169 (2002), 118–175. (online)
(Be1) J. Bergner, A model category structure on the category of simplicial categories, Trans. Amer. Math. Soc. 359 (2007), 2043–2058. (arXiv)
(Be2) J. Bergner, Three models of the homotopy theory of homotopy theory, Topology 46 (2006), 1925–1955. (arXiv)
(BHS) R. Brown, P. Higgins and R. Sivera, Nonabelian Algebraic Topology: Higher Homotopy Groupoids of Filtered Spaces, to appear. (online)
(Ch1) E. Cheng, The category of opetopes and the category of opetopic sets, Th. Appl. Cat. 11 (2003), 353–374. arXiv)
(Ch2) E. Cheng, Weak $n$-categories: opetopic and multitopic foundations, Jour. Pure Appl. Alg. 186 (2004), 109–137. (arXiv)
(Ch3) E. Cheng, Weak $n$-categories: comparing opetopic foundations, Jour. Pure Appl. Alg. 186 (2004), 219–231. (arXiv)
(Ch4) E. Cheng, Opetopic bicategories: comparison with the classical theory. (arXiv)
(Ch5) E. Cheng, Comparing operadic theories of $n$-category. (arXiv)
(\ChGur) E. Cheng and N. Gurski, Toward an $n$-category of cobordisms, Th. Appl. Cat. 18 (2007), 274–302. (online)
(\ChLau) E. Cheng and A. Lauda, Higher-Dimensional Categories: an Illustrated Guidebook. (online)
(\ChMakkai) E. Cheng and M. Makkai, A note on the Penon definition of $n$-category, to appear in Cah. Top. Géeom. Diff.
(Cisinski) D.-C. Cisinski, Batanin higher groupoids and homotopy types, in Categories in Algebra, Geometry and Mathematical Physics, eds. A. Davydov et al, Contemp. Math. 431, AMS, Providence, Rhode Island, 2007, pp. 171–186. (arXiv)
(Ehresmann) C. Ehresmann, Catégories et Structures, Dunod, Paris, 1965.
(EK) S. Eilenberg and G. M. Kelly, Closed categories, in Proceedings of the Conference on Categorical Algebra, eds. S. Eilenberg et al, Springer, New York, 1966.
(Gro) A. Grothendieck, Pursuing Stacks, letter to D. Quillen, 1983. To be published, eds. G. Maltsiniotis, M. Künzer and B. Toen, Documents Mathématiques, Soc. Math. France, Paris, France.
(Gur) M. Gurski, Nerves of bicategories as stratified simplicial sets. To appear in Jour. Pure Appl. Alg..
(HMP) C. Hermida, M. Makkai, and J. Power: On weak higher-dimensional categories I, II. Jour. Pure Appl. Alg. 157 (2001), 221–277.
(Joyal) A. Joyal, Disks, duality and $\theta$-categories, preprint, 1997.
(JT) A. Joyal and M. Tierney, Quasi-categories vs Segal spaces. (arXiv)
(Lein1) Tom Leinster, A survey of definitions of $n$-category, Th. Appl. Cat. 10 (2002), 1–70. (arXiv)
(Lein2) Tom Leinster, Structures in higher-dimensional category theory. (arXiv)
(Lein3)
Tom Leinster, Higher Operads, Higher
Categories, Cambridge U. Press, Cambridge, 2003.
(arXiv)
(Loday) J. L. Loday, Spaces with finitely many non-trivial homotopy groups, Jour. Pure Appl. Alg. 24 (1982), 179–202.
(Lurie1) J. Lurie, Higher Topos Theory. (arXiv)
(Lurie2) J. Lurie, Stable infinity categories. (arXiv)
(Lurie3) J. Lurie, On the classification of topological field theories. (arXiv)
(Makkai) M. Makkai, The multitopic $\omega$-category of all multitopic $\omega$-categories. (online)
(Makkai2) M. Makkai, On comparing definitions of weak $n$-category. (online)
(May) J. P. May, What precisely are $E_{\infty}$ ring spaces and $E_{\infty}$ ring spectra?, Geometry and Topology Monographs 16 (2009), 215–284.
(MS) J. P. May and J. Siggurdson, Parametrized Homotopy Theory, AMS, Providence, Rhode Island, 2006.
(Pa1) S. Paoli, Semistrict models of connected 3-types and Tamsamani’s weak 3-groupoids. (arXiv)
(Pa2) S. Paoli, Semistrict Tamsamani $n$-groupoids and connected $n$-types. (arXiv)
(Penon) J. Penon, Approche polygraphique des $\infty$-categories non strictes, Cah. Top. Géom. Diff. 40 (1999), 31–80.
(Simpson1) C. Simpson, A closed model structure for $n$-categories, internal Hom, $n$-stacks and generalized Seifert–Van Kampen. (arXiv)
(Simpson2) C. Simpson, Limits in $n$-categories. (arXiv)
(Simpson3) C. Simpson, Calculating maps between $n$-categories. (arXiv)
(Simpson4) C. Simpson, On the Breen–Baez–Dolan stabilization hypothesis for Tamsamani’s weak $n$-categories. (arXiv)
(Simpson5) C. Simpson, Some properties of the theory of $n$-categories. (arXiv)
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(Verity3) D. Verity, Weak complicial sets, a simplicial weak $\omega$-category theory. Part II: nerves of complicial Gray-categories. (arXiv)
(Weber) M. Weber, Yoneda structures from 2-toposes, Applied Categorical Structures 15(3) (2007), 259–323. Preliminary version: (arXiv)
+–{.query}
Eric: There is probably a better solution, but the asterisks below are to ensure that this page is long enough that links to specific references work, e.g. if the reference is at the bottom of the page, the anchor may not work as desired.
Toby: Some browsers do this right; they put extra space at the bottom if needed. =–
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